tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222209604521810028.post7797356198475592976..comments2023-06-21T14:05:07.951+01:00Comments on Providence, Divine Action and the Church: Stephen Holmes on the Trinity: Is He Correct? Part IITerry Wrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01641805384260706563noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222209604521810028.post-64579438394927786962013-10-04T17:09:19.736+01:002013-10-04T17:09:19.736+01:00I quickly found a some of Torrance and he definit...I quickly found a some of Torrance and he definitely supports the Nicene model of eternal generation. So if he says that the Father is not the source of the Trinity, then Torrance merely rejects models of eternal generation that say that the Father is the source of Son and Holy Spirit, which I think is a good idea.James Goetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02412501436355228925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222209604521810028.post-58989820413552951192013-10-04T07:11:48.908+01:002013-10-04T07:11:48.908+01:00Well, I don't think Watts was arguing for anyt...Well, I don't think Watts was arguing for anything new as such. He was more arguing that there's a lot in Torrance that needs to be appreciated. So if you can't wait to read Watts's paper, you could always get a head start and begin reading Torrance!Terry Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01641805384260706563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222209604521810028.post-46479952255327709992013-10-03T21:08:40.109+01:002013-10-03T21:08:40.109+01:00Or I suppose somebody could try to say that eterna...Or I suppose somebody could try to say that eternal generation and eternal procession has nothing to do with the Father being the source of the Son and Holy Spirit. I better read the paper before getting carried away with this :-)James Goetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02412501436355228925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222209604521810028.post-77339107562347164632013-10-03T20:59:30.189+01:002013-10-03T20:59:30.189+01:00I suppose the term "source" with careful...I suppose the term "source" with careful definition is helpful. If I correctly understand this, I agree with Watts and Torrance that the Father is not the source of the Son and Holy Spirit, which I suppose is tantamount to rejecting the ancient doctrines of eternal generation and eternal procession.James Goetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02412501436355228925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222209604521810028.post-80413611476786575182013-10-03T16:02:45.547+01:002013-10-03T16:02:45.547+01:00I believe the point is simply that the triune God ...I believe the point is simply that the triune God is the cause or source of the triune God, rather than the Father being the cause or source of the Son and the Spirit. The language of causation may be unhelpful, but I don't think 'source' is.Terry Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01641805384260706563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1222209604521810028.post-60594288274685229782013-10-03T13:40:40.005+01:002013-10-03T13:40:40.005+01:00"Or, in other words, it’s not the Father alon..."Or, in other words, it’s not the Father alone that is the cause or the archē of the divine being, but the Trinity."<br /><br />I disagree with any reference to "cause" in regards to the eternal relationships within the Trinity. The uncreated nature of God and the eternal relationships within the Trinity are uncaused.<br /><br />Peace,<br />JimJames Goetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02412501436355228925noreply@blogger.com